Oh this is such a rich topic! Thank you for raising it. I am an ESG exec who has worked directly in supply chain and product sustainability and human rights in the apparel and footwear sector for the last decade +. And, I love fashion. (former art school kid) I have faced pieces of this dilemma more times than I can count. I am straight sized so part of what you're grappling with doesn't apply to me, to be clear, but the dilemma around price, value, quality, ethics and pleasure certainly do.
I have recently made some purchases that raised my former ceiling on price point and made me feel both uncomfortable and thrilled. I bought 2 dresses from a designer named Julia Heuer who uses traditional shibori technique to fold and pleat her garments into fantastic shapes and volume ($850 and $1100 for transparency). I had never spent that much on a garment before and it was a months long dilemma. Technically, I can afford it, but the many questions you are swirling in were also mine. For me, it came down to supporting a small designer whose practices generally support my values and whose work is so unusual that it could be considered art. Julia's label is too small to really run an ESG program so I had to rely on material (100% recycled poly) and manufacturing location (Germany) as my two critical data points, which is imperfect but isn't nothing.
For a brand like Toteme, who is about $35M in revenue, you can gather a lot more information on their practices, which you've done. I skimmed through their report and they support most of the reputable industry orgs, have set credible goals and are working towards a science-based vision, albeit very young in their journey, which is to be expected. None of this answers whether or not this garment is special enough TO YOU to justify the expense. I sometimes like to weigh a piece like this against a truly small brand- like the sweet coat you mentioned from N-EM-CEE- to help put it into perspective and understand what you're really paying for. Toteme certainly charges a 'brand' premium that has nothing to do with rad business practices.
Lastly, will it haunt you if you don't purchase it? Is it that special? Not sure if any of this is of help but I certainly can relate! Looking forward to hearing what you decide.
Wow, thank you SO much for this thoughtful comment. I so appreciate your expertise and your personal perspective! I'm still not sure where I will land but you've given me a lot to think about--especially thinking about comparing to something from a tiny brand.
This might be my favorite Big Undies post, not just for the transparent and thoughtful examination of your own feelings and process, Corinne, but also for the really varied and brilliant responses from the community! So much to think about and relate to. Really smart discussion! Thank you for creating content that is both challenging and useful! And thanks to the community it’s for raising questions/ideas that I can weave into my own shopping experiences. 👏
But I always think if it’s meant for you it’ll work out (aside from obvious size discrimination) so maybe it just isn’t? Or it is and you’ll keep it and love it!!
I have a number of pieces from Toteme. I like the vibe of their clothes a lot and the pieces I’ve purchased have been workhorses in my wardrobe. That said!
…. If you buy direct from them, most of their non-numerically sized pieces actually go to an XL even. I looked at this very shacket and I’m 90% sure they made an XL. So I really agree with this comment on the medium, is this settling?
That said, it looks great on you. Better than the other options you’ve shown!!
Last note: the realreal usually has quite a few toteme pieces. Also they do pretty steep end of season sales about 2x per year. Last year I watched an $800 wool sweater dress and finally pounced on the last XL during their sale for $450 and not was worth every penny to me. Makes me feel like a million bucks and I could probably change size three sizes in either direction and would still look like it fits the way it was intended.
Yep, I was fully on board with keeping it until I read that she'd settled for an M. $700 is not too much to pay for anything you love, but $700 is too much to pay for a what-if, imo.
This is so interesting to me! I couldn't do it, and it doesn't sound like you're that comfortable keeping it. I just did the conversion from USD to AUD and it's over $1000... I bought a gown for my 30th birthday which was about $900 AUD and I still sometimes feel kind of weird about it even though it was amazing and I felt fabulous and I will probably wear it again, even if just for a costume. I unsubscribed to a bunch of fashion substacks because A: like nothing they were recommending would ever fit me, and B: because everything was hundreds - if not thousands - of dollars. It's too much for my brain. I kind of cringe when I drop $200 AUD on a jersey cotton dress that has been fully designed and sewn by fairly employed and paid people in australia, and those dresses are worth every cent for how cute, comfortable, practical and size inclusive they are! I so often struggle with my dislike of fast fashion vs being plus size vs living on a freelance artist's money! Also I feel ridiculous for dumping this massive comment when I've never been brave enough to comment before, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately! Love your work!
I'm so glad you did make this comment! I agree and feel similarly to so much you said here. I'd love to know more about your $900AUD gown and how you decided to buy that. I definitely feel like Substack has me a little Toteme-pilled sometimes.
I can't see myself ever spending $700 on any garment except perhaps something custom tailored for me (and then depending on the item I could see spending much more to fairly compensate the creator for their labor and skills). But for something off the rack, no.
Like others I also feel a little bit of ick of the "this isn't designed to fit my body, not really." I used to think I had to shrink my body to "earn" the right to wear certain brands, but now I'm very much of the mindset that "I'm not going to fuck with your business if you don't want to make clothes for someone my size."
The custom tailored thing is such a good point, too! I've never gotten something custom tailored but it would be interesting to look into how much that might cost--maybe in my future!
I agree with the recommendation for custom tailoring, BUT! I know how overwhelming it is to try to find someone who can do that for you. You have to ask around on neighborhood groups, and different people will have different opinions, and then what if you go there and the person is obnoxious? It would (it has!) prevented me from trying something like that. But it does seem like the best compromise.
When I was a young teen all of my clothes were custom tailored. My mother didn't like retail offering for a 14 year old (Misses clothes that made me look old) so she hired a tailor. Worth investigating to get exactly what you want in the fabric you want in the size that fits perfectly.
I've only ever had minor alterations done by the pros, like fittings for bridesmaid dresses, and one other time when I decided to turn a maxi dress into a midi. It would be really cool to find something where it could be made for me from scratch!
What a great piece Corinne, thank you. I say leave it in the box for a few days, then try it again and see how you feel, how excited you are. It really does look great on you. I’ve owned many pieces over the years that I loved to own and touch and think about and envision myself wearing, but that just didn’t look or feel good on me even though they technically fit, namely a dreamy Babaa cotton sweater that I kept for YEARS before finally letting it go. Not so much the garment but the idea of it, of me wearing it, of the person I would be when I did. You articulated all of those feelings so well. ♥️
I would never spend $700 (or the equivalent) on a shirt but I actually voted for you keeping it. You have already bought it and seem to really love how the shirt fits and looks on you. Maybe this could be your 'one-off' expensive item. If you wear it a lot, it seems worth it to me. Of course, that comes with a whole caveat about fair pricing/wages and what 'worth it' even means, but still.
I also voted keep for all these reasons. It looks good! I think Corrine would get a lot of use out of it! Honestly every clothing and shoe choice feels like it has baggage these days and sometimes I have to let those feelings go.
this was my reasoning as well. I'm not really a "fashion" person I don't guess. I've never heard of toteme before today, and your concerns are so valid. but you are a fashion person and if you would wear this, you're allowed to treat yourself sometimes. no judgement from my end, no matter what you decide
I loved this rumination so much! I recently bought a 3rd pair of Bryr clogs (I found out Chonk/Tegan are wide enough for me this year and never looked back 😬) and I feel so torn about it (currently pretty broke grad student buying them on payment plan). But I wear them a lot, and always feel so put together in my counseling internship. But do I need 3 pairs!?!? Did I buy them from a feeling of inadequacy and fear of not having things that I love? Or did I buy them because I love them/need them??? I genuinely don’t know!!!! I love that shirt on you. I voted mail back, but only because I thought if you have any hesitation already, it’s probably a safe bet. But hey, how can any of us definitively know the future of what we will love, covet, wear, and tell ourselves positive stories about? Also Corinne, you’re a fashion writer!!!! $700 shirt shmeven hundred dollar shirt. ❤️
I am dying laughing at your last sentence here--so funny. I love the Bryr clog comparison because their clogs do also feel really uniquely designed. I don't know, it's also like is any price too high for comfortable shoes?? They are essential.
The answer to that question is no. If your feet are not completely comfortable the rest of your body isn't either and your brain can't function. Anything else is debatable, but NOT comfortable feet.
If you love it and know you will wear it until it wears out, it’s worth it. However, for that price you could find someone to make you a bespoke one that fits you and is made for you, and made well. Just off the top of my head I think it’s something Ureshii (in Canada) could likely make for you, and their work is quality. I’m also willing to bet if you reached out to Shift Wheeler, they could make you one in denim for less than that. And you would know and work with the maker and know it was produced ethically and know exactly who your money was going to.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with buying it IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT without worrying about money, but at the same time you could also get something better for less. I also agree with Leila that we shouldn’t be spending this kind of money on clothes that weren’t made for us by companies who lock us out.
It’s a dilemma! But in the end it’s something only you can decide.
Whew, this part: "On one end of the spectrum I have brands that might make very oversize things for thin people that I can sometimes squeeze into, and on the other end of the spectrum I have brands that make things in my size—but not well." 🎯
I think design is really underrated when it comes to assessing worth - perhaps the Toteme shirt has just enough design touches to significantly lift it above the rest, even if it's not outstanding in terms of quality and construction. It looks great on you! But if you feel uncomfortable spending $700 on it, you should send it back. I do occasionally spend large sums of money on clothes and I only ever kept them if they made me feel unequivocally content, and also if I wouldn't worry about dirtying them or potentially losing them in some kind of luggage mishap.
I often look at design to decide if something is worth shelling out large sums of money for. Last year I bought a pair of pants for $250 which felt like a lot for cargo pants but the style and cut was just outstanding to me and I knew no alternative would come close. That said, $700 is pretty high bar for my income level! You would need to really feel special in it to want to keep it.
Yes, this is so relevant. I love the perspective that design is underrated. This definitely had some interesting design features that I haven't seen elsewhere. But I also agree that there is a huge difference between $250 (which still feels like a high price) and $700.
I said “send it back” as a purely gut reaction! That comes from a place where I would never spend $700 on a shirt, but that doesn’t mean YOU shouldn’t!! The shirt does look fantastic.
Perfect title! I 100% clicked on it, scoffing in my mind that I would NEVER.... then read and totally changed my mind. If I found something I liked, that fit me, that checked a lot if not all the boxes, and similar items at a lower price point don't really fit the bill, I'd probably keep the $700 shirt. If I didn't, every other denim shirt would be EXTRA sub-par after the holy grail shirt. And it's a SHIRT (shacket?) meaning you'll wear it a lot more than other expensive garments like suits or gowns.
Ahhh, I love that you read the whole thing and felt yourself swayed!! I really appreciate your perspective here--it's definitely true that it makes every other denim shirt seem a little sub-par.
I voted keep it. We deserve nice things, and cost per wear and resale value absolutely factor into my investment purchases. My toteme pieces are among the most loved in my wardrobe - and I’ve always recommended them to other plus size friends because so much of the line is oversized. But the real question is: will you feel sad if you send it back? FWIW I also love the good American denim on you!!
There's no way I could ever do it, because that's just impossible for me, period. I live on Social Security, have no pension, and know very well what my limits are. That raincoat from Gudrun Sjoden was a huge splurge--for me--that I saved up money doing side work for (and have felt terribly guilty about ever since). I buy used clothing nearly all the time. But, I'm also almost 66 years old. I don't care what's cool or trendy. If I'm wearing something that happens to be in style right now, it's probably on accident!
I wore denim shirts and chore coats of my dad's when I was a teenager, and have always loved them. I've always worn the same kind of jeans forever, too!
Everybody has to follow their heart on these things. If that shirt/shacket is calling to you from its box, maybe you actually love it--it did look super cute on you!! But so did those other denim shirts! I'm not a good person to ask, ever, about what to do. That's why I didn't vote in the poll. You'll do what's right for you, I know it! xo
I retired two years ago. When I was a full time hospice nurse I’d get home and change into “comfortable “ clothes. I still like to look nice,but it feels weird to wear what used to be work clothes at home. I’m 69 , my daughter says I dress old,but not in a bad way. I just want to be comfortable.
Oh this is such a rich topic! Thank you for raising it. I am an ESG exec who has worked directly in supply chain and product sustainability and human rights in the apparel and footwear sector for the last decade +. And, I love fashion. (former art school kid) I have faced pieces of this dilemma more times than I can count. I am straight sized so part of what you're grappling with doesn't apply to me, to be clear, but the dilemma around price, value, quality, ethics and pleasure certainly do.
I have recently made some purchases that raised my former ceiling on price point and made me feel both uncomfortable and thrilled. I bought 2 dresses from a designer named Julia Heuer who uses traditional shibori technique to fold and pleat her garments into fantastic shapes and volume ($850 and $1100 for transparency). I had never spent that much on a garment before and it was a months long dilemma. Technically, I can afford it, but the many questions you are swirling in were also mine. For me, it came down to supporting a small designer whose practices generally support my values and whose work is so unusual that it could be considered art. Julia's label is too small to really run an ESG program so I had to rely on material (100% recycled poly) and manufacturing location (Germany) as my two critical data points, which is imperfect but isn't nothing.
For a brand like Toteme, who is about $35M in revenue, you can gather a lot more information on their practices, which you've done. I skimmed through their report and they support most of the reputable industry orgs, have set credible goals and are working towards a science-based vision, albeit very young in their journey, which is to be expected. None of this answers whether or not this garment is special enough TO YOU to justify the expense. I sometimes like to weigh a piece like this against a truly small brand- like the sweet coat you mentioned from N-EM-CEE- to help put it into perspective and understand what you're really paying for. Toteme certainly charges a 'brand' premium that has nothing to do with rad business practices.
Lastly, will it haunt you if you don't purchase it? Is it that special? Not sure if any of this is of help but I certainly can relate! Looking forward to hearing what you decide.
Wow, thank you SO much for this thoughtful comment. I so appreciate your expertise and your personal perspective! I'm still not sure where I will land but you've given me a lot to think about--especially thinking about comparing to something from a tiny brand.
This was such a helpful and informative perspective! Thanks for chiming in!
This might be my favorite Big Undies post, not just for the transparent and thoughtful examination of your own feelings and process, Corinne, but also for the really varied and brilliant responses from the community! So much to think about and relate to. Really smart discussion! Thank you for creating content that is both challenging and useful! And thanks to the community it’s for raising questions/ideas that I can weave into my own shopping experiences. 👏
Really appreciate this insight and perspective!
I wouldn’t be able to ever enjoy it without having tried on the Large! I’d always wonder.
UGH, DACY, this is so real. This comment may be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
But I always think if it’s meant for you it’ll work out (aside from obvious size discrimination) so maybe it just isn’t? Or it is and you’ll keep it and love it!!
Oh shit 😬 sorry
I have a number of pieces from Toteme. I like the vibe of their clothes a lot and the pieces I’ve purchased have been workhorses in my wardrobe. That said!
…. If you buy direct from them, most of their non-numerically sized pieces actually go to an XL even. I looked at this very shacket and I’m 90% sure they made an XL. So I really agree with this comment on the medium, is this settling?
That said, it looks great on you. Better than the other options you’ve shown!!
Last note: the realreal usually has quite a few toteme pieces. Also they do pretty steep end of season sales about 2x per year. Last year I watched an $800 wool sweater dress and finally pounced on the last XL during their sale for $450 and not was worth every penny to me. Makes me feel like a million bucks and I could probably change size three sizes in either direction and would still look like it fits the way it was intended.
Actually, I was thinking of their shacket from spring! This one only went to an L. 🙂
Yep, I was fully on board with keeping it until I read that she'd settled for an M. $700 is not too much to pay for anything you love, but $700 is too much to pay for a what-if, imo.
This is so interesting to me! I couldn't do it, and it doesn't sound like you're that comfortable keeping it. I just did the conversion from USD to AUD and it's over $1000... I bought a gown for my 30th birthday which was about $900 AUD and I still sometimes feel kind of weird about it even though it was amazing and I felt fabulous and I will probably wear it again, even if just for a costume. I unsubscribed to a bunch of fashion substacks because A: like nothing they were recommending would ever fit me, and B: because everything was hundreds - if not thousands - of dollars. It's too much for my brain. I kind of cringe when I drop $200 AUD on a jersey cotton dress that has been fully designed and sewn by fairly employed and paid people in australia, and those dresses are worth every cent for how cute, comfortable, practical and size inclusive they are! I so often struggle with my dislike of fast fashion vs being plus size vs living on a freelance artist's money! Also I feel ridiculous for dumping this massive comment when I've never been brave enough to comment before, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately! Love your work!
I'm so glad you did make this comment! I agree and feel similarly to so much you said here. I'd love to know more about your $900AUD gown and how you decided to buy that. I definitely feel like Substack has me a little Toteme-pilled sometimes.
I can't see myself ever spending $700 on any garment except perhaps something custom tailored for me (and then depending on the item I could see spending much more to fairly compensate the creator for their labor and skills). But for something off the rack, no.
Like others I also feel a little bit of ick of the "this isn't designed to fit my body, not really." I used to think I had to shrink my body to "earn" the right to wear certain brands, but now I'm very much of the mindset that "I'm not going to fuck with your business if you don't want to make clothes for someone my size."
The custom tailored thing is such a good point, too! I've never gotten something custom tailored but it would be interesting to look into how much that might cost--maybe in my future!
I agree with the recommendation for custom tailoring, BUT! I know how overwhelming it is to try to find someone who can do that for you. You have to ask around on neighborhood groups, and different people will have different opinions, and then what if you go there and the person is obnoxious? It would (it has!) prevented me from trying something like that. But it does seem like the best compromise.
When I was a young teen all of my clothes were custom tailored. My mother didn't like retail offering for a 14 year old (Misses clothes that made me look old) so she hired a tailor. Worth investigating to get exactly what you want in the fabric you want in the size that fits perfectly.
I've only ever had minor alterations done by the pros, like fittings for bridesmaid dresses, and one other time when I decided to turn a maxi dress into a midi. It would be really cool to find something where it could be made for me from scratch!
What a great piece Corinne, thank you. I say leave it in the box for a few days, then try it again and see how you feel, how excited you are. It really does look great on you. I’ve owned many pieces over the years that I loved to own and touch and think about and envision myself wearing, but that just didn’t look or feel good on me even though they technically fit, namely a dreamy Babaa cotton sweater that I kept for YEARS before finally letting it go. Not so much the garment but the idea of it, of me wearing it, of the person I would be when I did. You articulated all of those feelings so well. ♥️
Yeah, that is really something to consider, too--it's definitely not worth the price if I don't end up wearing it!
I would never spend $700 (or the equivalent) on a shirt but I actually voted for you keeping it. You have already bought it and seem to really love how the shirt fits and looks on you. Maybe this could be your 'one-off' expensive item. If you wear it a lot, it seems worth it to me. Of course, that comes with a whole caveat about fair pricing/wages and what 'worth it' even means, but still.
I also voted keep for all these reasons. It looks good! I think Corrine would get a lot of use out of it! Honestly every clothing and shoe choice feels like it has baggage these days and sometimes I have to let those feelings go.
edit: Corinne! should not type before coffee 😝
Ah, I love this.
this was my reasoning as well. I'm not really a "fashion" person I don't guess. I've never heard of toteme before today, and your concerns are so valid. but you are a fashion person and if you would wear this, you're allowed to treat yourself sometimes. no judgement from my end, no matter what you decide
I loved this rumination so much! I recently bought a 3rd pair of Bryr clogs (I found out Chonk/Tegan are wide enough for me this year and never looked back 😬) and I feel so torn about it (currently pretty broke grad student buying them on payment plan). But I wear them a lot, and always feel so put together in my counseling internship. But do I need 3 pairs!?!? Did I buy them from a feeling of inadequacy and fear of not having things that I love? Or did I buy them because I love them/need them??? I genuinely don’t know!!!! I love that shirt on you. I voted mail back, but only because I thought if you have any hesitation already, it’s probably a safe bet. But hey, how can any of us definitively know the future of what we will love, covet, wear, and tell ourselves positive stories about? Also Corinne, you’re a fashion writer!!!! $700 shirt shmeven hundred dollar shirt. ❤️
I am dying laughing at your last sentence here--so funny. I love the Bryr clog comparison because their clogs do also feel really uniquely designed. I don't know, it's also like is any price too high for comfortable shoes?? They are essential.
The answer to that question is no. If your feet are not completely comfortable the rest of your body isn't either and your brain can't function. Anything else is debatable, but NOT comfortable feet.
If you love it and know you will wear it until it wears out, it’s worth it. However, for that price you could find someone to make you a bespoke one that fits you and is made for you, and made well. Just off the top of my head I think it’s something Ureshii (in Canada) could likely make for you, and their work is quality. I’m also willing to bet if you reached out to Shift Wheeler, they could make you one in denim for less than that. And you would know and work with the maker and know it was produced ethically and know exactly who your money was going to.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with buying it IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT without worrying about money, but at the same time you could also get something better for less. I also agree with Leila that we shouldn’t be spending this kind of money on clothes that weren’t made for us by companies who lock us out.
It’s a dilemma! But in the end it’s something only you can decide.
+1 for Shift Wheeler, they are so great
Whew, this part: "On one end of the spectrum I have brands that might make very oversize things for thin people that I can sometimes squeeze into, and on the other end of the spectrum I have brands that make things in my size—but not well." 🎯
I think design is really underrated when it comes to assessing worth - perhaps the Toteme shirt has just enough design touches to significantly lift it above the rest, even if it's not outstanding in terms of quality and construction. It looks great on you! But if you feel uncomfortable spending $700 on it, you should send it back. I do occasionally spend large sums of money on clothes and I only ever kept them if they made me feel unequivocally content, and also if I wouldn't worry about dirtying them or potentially losing them in some kind of luggage mishap.
I often look at design to decide if something is worth shelling out large sums of money for. Last year I bought a pair of pants for $250 which felt like a lot for cargo pants but the style and cut was just outstanding to me and I knew no alternative would come close. That said, $700 is pretty high bar for my income level! You would need to really feel special in it to want to keep it.
Yes, this is so relevant. I love the perspective that design is underrated. This definitely had some interesting design features that I haven't seen elsewhere. But I also agree that there is a huge difference between $250 (which still feels like a high price) and $700.
I said “send it back” as a purely gut reaction! That comes from a place where I would never spend $700 on a shirt, but that doesn’t mean YOU shouldn’t!! The shirt does look fantastic.
Perfect title! I 100% clicked on it, scoffing in my mind that I would NEVER.... then read and totally changed my mind. If I found something I liked, that fit me, that checked a lot if not all the boxes, and similar items at a lower price point don't really fit the bill, I'd probably keep the $700 shirt. If I didn't, every other denim shirt would be EXTRA sub-par after the holy grail shirt. And it's a SHIRT (shacket?) meaning you'll wear it a lot more than other expensive garments like suits or gowns.
Ahhh, I love that you read the whole thing and felt yourself swayed!! I really appreciate your perspective here--it's definitely true that it makes every other denim shirt seem a little sub-par.
I'd suggest returning the medium and asking them to find a large for you in exchange. Otherwise refund to original payment please.
I voted keep it. We deserve nice things, and cost per wear and resale value absolutely factor into my investment purchases. My toteme pieces are among the most loved in my wardrobe - and I’ve always recommended them to other plus size friends because so much of the line is oversized. But the real question is: will you feel sad if you send it back? FWIW I also love the good American denim on you!!
Ahhh, I love this perspective. Also personally curious what piece you have from Toteme!
I have a couple of the fuzzy sweaters, the scarf coat, and the classic cashmere blend wrap coat. Also a couple trousers — but those are more TTS!
I have no idea what to do but just came here to say this was SUCH a helpful and interesting analysis, thank you!!
There's no way I could ever do it, because that's just impossible for me, period. I live on Social Security, have no pension, and know very well what my limits are. That raincoat from Gudrun Sjoden was a huge splurge--for me--that I saved up money doing side work for (and have felt terribly guilty about ever since). I buy used clothing nearly all the time. But, I'm also almost 66 years old. I don't care what's cool or trendy. If I'm wearing something that happens to be in style right now, it's probably on accident!
I wore denim shirts and chore coats of my dad's when I was a teenager, and have always loved them. I've always worn the same kind of jeans forever, too!
Everybody has to follow their heart on these things. If that shirt/shacket is calling to you from its box, maybe you actually love it--it did look super cute on you!! But so did those other denim shirts! I'm not a good person to ask, ever, about what to do. That's why I didn't vote in the poll. You'll do what's right for you, I know it! xo
Thanks for sharing, Roxy! I always really appreciate your perspective.
I retired two years ago. When I was a full time hospice nurse I’d get home and change into “comfortable “ clothes. I still like to look nice,but it feels weird to wear what used to be work clothes at home. I’m 69 , my daughter says I dress old,but not in a bad way. I just want to be comfortable.